Thursday, May 22, 2008

more on Lakeland

I've been watching more from the 'Lakeland outpouring'. I do find it strangely compulsive viewing for some reason, and probably not a good one.

thanks to ASBO jesus for the excellent cartoons.

Some other folks who have commented (and who are definitely not impressed) include Graham at Leaving Munster who is bored with outpourings and for some reason is somewhat skeptical about the angel of finance.

Maggi Dawn is similarly unimpressed and so is a deconstructed christian.

I do share many of their concerns and as I said before, I'm not convinced this type of revivalism is the way forward for the church. I don't want to be completely negative though. What I did like, from what I saw last night, was that they were training up hundreds of ordinary people to go out on the streets to pray for people and do evangelism and there were some quite amazing testimonies as a result of this. In other words, it's not all just about the guy at the front doing this stuff, regular people seemed to be being used in ways that they never had been before. Time will tell if lives, and churches and societies are genuinely being changed.


seeker3 said...

Todd Bentley was probably accepted by many Christians because he operated Toronto “Blessing” type spiritual phenomena that achieved widespread acceptance many years prior.

These phenomena are sensational and pleasurable, many people are attracted to them, so many Christians may assume that is good to get more people coming in the church door.

However it is actually a diabolical intrusion to ruin churches.

It is an interesting co-incidence that TB is the initials for Todd Bentley and Toronto “Blessing”.

Toronto “blessing” type ministry is attractive to many church leaders as a supernatural power they can dispense to people.
They become spiritual drug dealers, and many people get “hooked”.

Attempting to command, wave, and prod the Holy Spirit or Jesus into people is gross misbehaviour against God.

He will not be commanded by men or be indulged like a prostitute for drunken frolicks.
The phenomena isn’t a blessing from God.
It is an infiltration of occult power from the same source as Hindu “Shaktipat”. Google “Shaktipat”.

Toronto “Blessing” is wizardry and magic arts from familiar spirits (demons masquerading as friendly):
Lev 20:6 And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people. (KJV)

Rev 21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.

Toronto “Blessing” definitely didn’t come from the creator God, as he never imparts manifestations similar to mental illness or drunken / drugged, as that is a contradiction of a sound mind and self control which he has repeatedly endorsed in the Bible.

The only exception might be when God punishes someone by putting them into a drunken stupor, which would also be a warning to others:

Romans 10:21 …"All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and obstinate people."…..
Romans 11:8 …"God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes so that they could not see and ears so that they could not hear"
Job 12:25 They grope in darkness with no light; he makes them stagger like drunkards.

Isaiah 19:14 The LORD has poured into them a spirit of dizziness; they make Egypt stagger in all that she does, as a drunkard staggers around in his vomit.

Isaiah 29:9-10 Be stunned and amazed, blind yourselves and be sightless; be drunk, but not from wine, stagger, but not from beer. The LORD has brought over you a deep sleep: He has sealed your eyes (the prophets); he has covered your heads (the seers).

Christians should not provoke punishment from God:
Isaiah 8:13 The LORD Almighty is the one you are to regard as holy, he is the one you are to fear, he is the one you are to dread

seeker3 said...

The Bible repeatedly asserts drunkenness as immoral.

The Bible does not endorse a righteous version of drunkenness, just as there is no righteous version of stealing, adultery or lying.

Rom 13:12-14 The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light. let us walk properly, as in the day, not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy. But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts.

On the Day of Pentecost Christian disciples preached the gospel in various languages which impressed listeners who comprehended the message in their own language. (Acts 2:1-47)
However mockers accused the disciples of being drunk for speaking authentic languages the disciples normally didn’t know.
The false accusation of mockers should not be used to justify spiritual or physical drunkenness.

2 Cor 4:4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Spiritual drunkenness blinds the minds of believers!

The Bible encourages us to test the spirits, and that should include using your mind to analyse the outcomes (manifestations) in conjunction with seeking what the bible says about it.
This is what a renewed mind is for.
1 John 4:1 … test the spirits to see whether they are from God…
Romans 12:2 …be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and perfect will.

Being discerning includes being cautious.
“The fear of the Lord” includes being cautious.
God recommends this to protect us from harm.

Spiritual drunkenness ministries (eg. John Crowder) that encourage reckless abandon towards God are defying God’s repeating counsel in the Bible.

2 Cor 11:14-15 Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
Rev 20:10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Playing around with counterfeit “angels of light” (familiar spirits) might be bliss and ecstasy now, but if not repented of will lead to rejection by the Most High God forever.

The “big party” will occur in heaven after we die, not now (Rev 19:9).

Scripture asserts we now have serious work to do while remaining firmly sober.
2 Tim 4:5 …. keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry.

“Keep your head” includes not getting drunk.

Luke 12:45-46 … suppose the servant says to himself, 'My master is taking a long time in coming,' and he then begins to beat the menservants and maidservants and to eat and drink and get drunk.
The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.

“eat and drink and get drunk” in that passage probably means self indulgence and spiritual foolishness while neglecting what God wants doing.

seeker3 said...

“Slain”……. churches are falling over!

Toronto “Blessing” type phenomena produce manifestations such as mental euphoria, body vibrations, twitching, slurred speech, gibberish speech and sound effects, animal acts – dogs, chickens, lions, snakes, etc., staggering about, falling over (“slain”), and having uncontrollable/irrational laughter.

These are manifestations of the god of chaos – Lucifer.
People who participate are unwittingly practicing mockery of the Bible, mockery of God the Father, mockery of Jesus Christ and mockery of the Holy Spirit.

Participators who come to this realisation should repent and deliberately avoid any recurrences. They should also warn others, as it will be disastrous on judgement day for people who persisted in spiritually fornicating with Satan’s minions “familiar spirits”.

I was previously deceived about Toronto “Blessing” in a church I attended.
I tolerated it due to experiences I had at a Christian training school about 4 years prior, as well as not comparing it sufficiently against Bible counsel.

Pride could make a person unwilling to face the possibility they have been deceived, and then to remove themselves from the convenience of continuing in fellowship with others who indulge in false ministry.

It is God himself who gives divisive counsel:
Rev 18:4-5 "come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues.”

Will people heed God’s warning?
Sadly, many won’t because they are either in love with a false Christ who gives them tickles, or have insufficient “fear of the Lord”:
Prov 14:26-27 He who fears the lord has a secure fortress, and for his children it will be a refuge. The fear of the LORD is a fountain of life, turning a man from the snares of death.

Toronto “Blessing” type phenomena have been called “new wine”.

It is actually spiritual adultery, and therefore maddening wine:
Rev 18:3 the nations have drunk the maddening wine of her adulteries.

At the height of a Toronto “Blessing” era I experienced in the mid 1990’s, the church services were a madhouse of manifestations.
They used to have evenings where cushions were put all over the floor for all the falling over that went on.

“Slain”…….. churches are falling over!

The only “slain” from God is being killed for misbehaviour, as happened to Annanias and Sapphira see Acts 5:1-11

The Holy Spirit will be grieved by Christian people fornicating with spiritual sensations from the Devil:
Eph 4:30 do not grieve the Holy Spirit.

Phenomena like Toronto “Blessing” push people towards mental illness, such as bipolar disorder, through giving them tremendous euphoric "high’s", (supposedly a “blessing” from God), then they come crashing down into unbearable depression when the "high" wears off.

This causes them to seek more of the “high” and become familiar spirit drug addicts.

This has actually led to suicides of church people.

Mental illness and demon influence are sometimes different names for the same thing.

This is how some churches are going in the direction of “Babylon”: Rev 18:2 “She has become a home for demons and a haunt for every evil spirit”

1 Tim 6:11 But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness.